James Li: It's Not The AI That's Evil — It's Who Controls It

0:00 Up everybody. How's everybody doing today? So good to have you guys here. I'm very excited. I have a good friend James Lee here. We only got a short amount of time with him, so I'm just going to bring him right in. But if you don't know, he's one of the best guys in the content game. He's one of the go-to people that I go to for any information about what's happening because he's a juggernaut on the content. So without further ado, just wanted to bring in James Lee. James, how does how you doing, brother? What's up? What an intro. The content or juggernaut of content. I don't think I've ever been introduced that way. Well, because you are, man. You are. I I

0:47 I'm inspired so much by what you do, man. I, you know, there are definitely little things that I have molded uh from watching your content for so long. So, yeah, man. Really uh really stoked. Uh and it seems like I actually got my YouTube live streaming working. So, yeah, because I've been having nothing but issues live streaming over there, but I think I got it dialed in now. Uh the people are saying, "What's up? What's up?" Uh yes, Souza Kuza, I know all about the drama. My comment is that drama, save it for your mama. Uh we're not doing that over here. Uh because I'm friends with a lot of people on a lot of different sides. So yeah, it's it's unfortunate, but I think we all have uh

1:34 better work to do and we have better ways to use our talents than to try to tear each other down. Uh instead, we should be building each other up. Um and you know, I think that's what we're doing here, man. We're we're doing that between us. We're building each other up, man. So, uh, but James, you know, a new question that I'm now going to ask all of the people who come on to my show from now moving forward, you get to be the first, is what is your favorite conspiracy theory or what is the conspiracy theory that you are just obsessed with right now? That is a I'm sure you'll get a lot of interesting answers to that question. for me. And this might be an answer that you

2:20 won't find satisfying, but I really don't see myself as a traditional conspiracy theorist. I think my conspiracy theories are around the notion that there are bad people, evil people in this world, and they get together and plot evil things, and that does happen. That is my favorite conspiracy theory and that's the stuff that I genuin generally look into versus, you know, I know there's a lot of ones out there that are like aliens and oh yeah, you know, pyramids and and all that stuff. For me, it's just like, hey, I think, you know, for example, I I I believe that um you know, Sam Olsman is, you know, an evil human being and he's

3:05 plotting to kill us all. You know, that's the kind of stuff that I dig into, which some people would think that's a conspiracy theory. Other people just think that he's just an evil psychopathic billionaire doing evil psychopathic billionaire things. Yeah, I know. I agree wholeheartedly. I guess, you know, maybe the conspiracy is the wrong word because now in like 2026, like those lines are blurred between like, you know, the fantastical, which would be like the UFOs and the things of that nature, down to like government corruption, and it's all kind of conspiracy now. You know, I know last week you and I were talking a lot about the um the uh the Fly Dubai flight, and

3:50 I remember you were fixated on that for a few days, and that's a conspiracy. Oh, okay. Wait, hold on a second. I'm gonna I'm gonna revise my answer for a little bit because I do have some interesting conspiracies that I'm kind of like known to do stories on, which are these like theories of people honeypotting and things like that. Whether it be, you know, Alexis Wilkins and Cash Patel or Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump or Sydney Sweeney, Scooter Braun or Marilyn Monroe with JFK. These are all like interesting theories to me in terms of like how, you know, love and relationships can then be

4:35 like basically shoehorned in to this like massive like geopolitical or or love and basically how love can somehow like have huge geopolitical consequences. We we I'm going to use love in quotations. So, those are interesting stories that I, you know, for one reason or another really love getting into. And those are some of my favorites that you do, honestly. I mean, I'm pretty sure that you got taken off of TikTok for doing the Alexis Wilkins stuff if I'm not mistaken. Or at least it may have been like a bridge or a straw that broke the camel's back type of situation. But I did get taken off of TikTok for I think for that story, but I had it restored after that. And this was

5:20 [clears throat] in the pre-ellison days. Yes. So I was able to get it restored and then later on um I got banned again after Larry Ellison took it over. I don't know for what video specifically. It's hard to say. I did another one that was like kind of Taylor Swift related, but it wasn't really about Taylor Swift. It was a fake Taylor Swift album review. And everything that I was talking, everything in the background was like stuff about, you know, how Israel was infiltrating our media, whether through, you know, the Warner Brothers. Uh, at the time it was, it was announced that it was like they were taking over Warner Brothers or the Ellison's were and then taking over Tik Tok and all this stuff.

6:05 Yeah. Then I got taken off. Interesting, isn't it? I know. I thought I could skirt the AI algorithm or like content moderation by just putting up articles in the background, but AI is smart now. They know what I'm talking about. Oh, it's getting better and better. It understands context unlike anything. It's actually getting scary over the last couple of months. Um, you know, with using AI and everything like that. And that actually is a perfect little segue cuz I'm sort of wondering what your take because this is something that I talk about a lot on the show which is the AI companies. I use AI. I love AI. I think as a technology it's fantastic. Uh

6:52 but the AI companies and particularly the people who own them and their transhumanist beliefs uh really scare me. and these cults that have formed in Sil Silicon Valley around them really do scare me. Um, so what is your take kind of on like the AI/AI companies out there because I know you've definitely have uh you know definitely exposed a lot of like Sam Alman uh over the ye over the last year or so. I've seen you do quite a few videos on that. What's kind of your take on AI in general these days? I think I kind of agree with you in some respects. I don't think AI as a technology itself is evil, just like any

7:38 other technology that's been invented in the past, you know, hundreds or thousands of years. But it's really the people who control the technology that makes it evil. Like what are they planning to do with it? Um, and the control, the centralized control. I think AI, I talked to this guy, um, Timothy Olafan. I interviewed him like about a year ago and he's been in the tech space for a long time. He is like the inventor of Python. Okay. And he's in the AI world. And he was like AI can be good. It's just the centralization of AI by specific people is what makes it evil. He's like everybody should in theory have their own little like chatbot which you know they can control but all that data needs to be yours. He says, "One of

8:24 the big issues is that you have these multinational corporations with no loyalty to a nation or even its people controlling all this data. Who knows what they're going to do with it?" I just read recently, you know, some guy was like, "Hey, don't feed your stuff into Open AI because they're going to do something with it." like they can generate businesses on businesses ideas um research you know inventions from the ideas that you have that's feeding into it. There's no way for you to know it's secure. So it's all about like the data storage and what you input should be yours in terms of ownership versus it now being controlled by these overlords and who knows what they're going to do with it like connection to um war

9:12 killing people you know all that stuff. I think that's where a lot of the evil comes from, man. Man, I I couldn't agree more. Yeah. I I sort of take the stance that well, a the technology isn't evil. People say like AI is evil and AI is going to take jobs and we like we kind of like almost put this like personhood into it. Like we make it like it's not ones and zeros and just basically Python. Like it's basically what it is. like you know it's software and you know us saying like it's evil it's going to do this it's no like AI isn't going to take your job like an employer is going to try to use AI and then either you know eliminate

9:57 your job or that job will never be available to anybody again but that doesn't mean that like the technology is evil but yeah I I agree that you know we should have some sovereignty over our data because data is gold in 2026 and in the future. I actually think that we've kind of reached like the limits of the internet and the books and everything that we have as far as media to train AI on. And so we're going to actually see this like lull in development, which is why I think we've seen the Frontier AI labs working with the American government putting out America uh.gov

10:42 with an AI chatbot. And that's all to train PE, train user behavior, train Americans. That's free training for all of those companies. And they need it because they're they're not in a good place. like these AI companies are not in a good place at all. Um, from an economic standpoint, they're all like months away from, you know, basically needing a bailout from the American government, which to me seems like that's what's being propped up right now, is everything's set up so that the American government, i.e. us taxpayers, we're going to foot the bill for AI and then we're going to instead of nationalizing it, we're still going to have to pay for it to use it. Right?

11:28 That's the the big difference is like, well, if you nationalize it, shouldn't the people have a say? But that's seems to be not where things are going. Also, I don't know what name I said of the guy. Was it Timothy Olan? I was like Travis. Travis is his name is Tra. I always get confused because Timothy Olan is an actor. Travis Olphant is his name. And I always get those two mixed up. They're so close. So, I just want to make sure. I don't know what I said before. You said Timothy. And I was gonna like the actor. No, no. I I did this like to his face too on accident. Hilarious. I'm sure he gets that quite a lot. And actually, but I think I agree with the the whole, you know, AI being in a precarious

12:14 situation. And I think the the economics don't make any sense. And I'm a business guy, right? I valuations and things like that, they they don't make any sense in terms of if you look at any of the ratios, you know, the income, the earnings, like they have no money, but yet they're going for trillion dollar valuations, which implies there's, you know, a lot of future value to be gained. But how so? And will they make it there before a bailout is needed? And that's why I think, and this is not to me like trying to downplay some of the dystopian narratives around AI, but I just think that a lot of that is marketing, technology more powerful or sound more

13:01 powerful than it actually is. No, you you're 100% right about that. Uh, it is marketing. it. Well, it's marketing, but it's also market manipulation is what it really comes down to. That's what Elon Musk, one of the frontier AI owners, has done. He has built an entire career. He's not an inventor. He's never invented any of this technology. He is a market manipulator. He knows how to go on Joe Rogan and smoke weed and then put out, you know, a 420 uh uh stock ticker for uh Tesla, right? Like he knows how to play that game probably better than anybody on the planet. So, I think that

13:49 that's part of it. Now the other part of it which is where I think everybody is kind of missing the point and something that I have been screaming from the rooftops is that there is another layer there and the other layer is what we would call Tesreel right and if you don't know TESCREAL is basically these seven ideologies that are within Silicon Valley like transhumanism and extropianism and like this is the the crux of like most of the content that I do. So my audience knows all about TESCREAL but uh the T in test is transhumanism and almost all of these

14:34 people are they've all written uh transhumanist manifestos or you know have built transhumanist companies like Neuralink you know the the AI brain interface. Uh Sam Alman has one called uh Merge, which is also a 2017 paper that he did about transhumanism. So all these guys are like openly transhumanists. Now all of the doomers, all of the whistleblowers like Jeremy Coxin, all of those people fall into one of two of those testes camps. The effective altruists or the rationalists. And both of them are the doomers. And you've I've never seen a single AI doomer that isn't one of those. And that

15:21 is this weird thing that's going on in the background that is just sort of coming to light. And for effective altruists, think Sam Bankman Freed. He was the poster child for effective altruism. He took it to its logical or illogical end and is now in prison with Diddy. So, you know, um that that's that's the other layer I think that a lot the of context that people are missing because the doomers what they're not trying to do is save humanity. They present themselves as, oh, we're here to save humanity. No, what they want to do is they want to make sure that humans aren't eradicated because if there's no humans left, then we can't become posthuman or transhumanists, right? Like

16:07 evolve into this stuff. And this is like now I probably sound like tinfoil like rant, but there's like a lot of documentation on this and I've spent the last five months uh breaking this down character by character, piece by piece. This is Peter Thiel as well. Uh an open transhumanist who believes in uh like brain uploads, which is uh why he's so interested in data centers. But have you heard about any of this transhumanist stuff outside of like me talking about it? I have heard, you know, of transhumanist. I've talked a little bit about it, but not to the degree that you probably have knowledge on. For me, that's a lot of that stuff is my brain

16:53 doesn't really even compute in that kind of way where these people the way these people are planning stuff. It's just beyond my level of like not comprehension but like my you know natural state. I don't think about that kind of stuff. I'm here I'm just living my life normal life and then I'm reporting on things that I find to be corrupt or nefarious versus like these guys are I don't know what you know they must have a lot of time on their hands or or whatever that might be. their brain works differently and they're philosophizing about how to upload computer chips into the brain. How do we make humans, you know, I guess perpetual beings or something like that? Yeah. So, I actually only understand it from a

17:39 very surface level like, oh, a transhumanist is sounds like somebody who's trying to like transcend like, you know, the normal arc of human life, like, you know, you're born and then you develop and then you get old and you die. they're trying to like somehow, you know, break that in a sense. Yeah. I I I think I I totally understand that perspective. I think that a lot of it comes down to, you know, the the early like Silicon Valley because I mean it's understood Silicon Valley is, you know, it basically rules the world now. like it creates the oligarchs that transcend um you know borders who can come in and literally buy our politics. I mean we

18:25 saw it with Elon Musk and he's a de I mean he's he's like three of the ideologies in TESCREAL like legit he's like a true believer. This is where like the terraforming Mars things comes comes from. That's from um uh the cosmists, right? Then these like legitimately even like Bitcoin's foundation actually goes back to the Extropians and Julian Assange and all of these people that used to meet in the '9s and and talk about like nanotechnology and transhumanism and stuff and that like just went through um uh Silicon Valley, but a lot of Silicon Valley and particularly the Extropians, which is where we would say like all of these

19:10 groups groups kind of formed out of the Extropians. All of them were libertarian. In fact, they were like incredibly libertarian. They were against big government. They were against big money. Uh but something happened where and I theorize and I think that there's some evidence though I I I wouldn't say smoking gun evidence that uh Jeffrey Epstein was actually involved with the Extropians. He has a lot of connections and he was an open transhumanist. If you go look in the documents in the emails, he talks about transhumanism. Literally admits to being a transhumanist. Um, and this is the stuff you you're describing where they are allegedly performing

19:55 experiments on these victims. They're not just sexual victims at these islands. There's like these operating tables that you've heard of. There's testimony from from victims saying that, you know, they just see a bright light. There's doctors in there. Correct. That's part of their operation. It's not just sex trafficking. It's just human trafficking for the purpose of some kind of experimentation. Yeah. So, you know, this is where I think a lot of the intersection of Jeffrey Epstein and um and the transhumanism thing kind of comes in is Zoro Ranch, right? So or science in particular. So all of this scientific research that he had given

20:40 grants to and all this stuff. And what we know about Zoro Ranch is that Zoro Ranch was built by the same people that do not build homes. They do not build residences. They build labs. They build military installations, right? They they built Los Alamos, right? They they were part of like that all of that. um and uh and some some of the other uh places. Um there's a Santa Fe in Institute. There's all these different things. So in in the files, Epstein said that he bought Zoro Ranch particularly because of its proximity to different scientists. And all of these scientists from the air

21:25 area had actually talked about dinners and stuff which have been corroborated by the Epstein files um by the emails that he would host these big lavish uh things and he was getting into uh DNA because he wanted to famously he had said that he wanted his DNA to be in all future humans. Right? This is it's because transhumanism is a form of eugenics and uh yeah, you know, like it's really it's really messed up. So, yeah, I I I think that there's a lot of overlap with Jeffrey Epstein. Um, and I think that a lot of the stuff like like I said it's like you look at the people

22:11 that he also associated with like Peter Thiel, Peter Thiel, Mark Andrees, those to seemingly always have their hands in something with regard to uh, you know, the AI technologies, the surveillance tech, all of this stuff actually intersects like very well. Yeah, it seems like it. I think that's a topic that I'm trying to like get more into because as I have been reporting on some of the corruption within Open AI, Sam Alsman specifically, but that's very much like within the realm of just regular corruption. Correct. It naturally leads to these kinds of rabbit holes, I would say.

22:57 Right. cuz I've done, you know, I think in the past like two years, a lot of rabbit holes going down, you know, Israel. Yeah. Going down the path of evangelical Christian, you know, ideology and how that plays into Christian Zionism and how that's sort of um, you know, the bedrock of a lot of the foundation of Israeli support. I think those are all stemming from, you know, this one axis or nexus of like um, foreign influence in the US. But I think this is another topic that I haven't talked a lot about that I'm glad you know you're kind of like opening my mind a little bit on is like hey when I go into these stories on Open AI there's more there's like a deep like rabbit hole that I can like go into that

23:43 I have not done any video. Yeah. So you know kind of I I I I had missed the last part of like what I was going to say there about the libertarianism right. So we so it started all as libertarianism. Uh but then what they sort of realized was no we actually need to be hyper capitalists because for us to actually get the kind of technologies the type of science that needs to be done to build these types of technologies cuz like I said these people were in in into like nanotechnology and all these like dark fringe technologies that are like still kind of a little futuristic but there's like teams of people like actively working on right and so I think what they realize is that they need to actually be hyper er capitalists, they

24:28 need to go in and play that game and do it better than everybody else so that they had all of the resources so that they could get the sciences done instead of having to worry about grants from the government. Why not just control the government? You know, like that's kind of like what's kind of happened over the last 40 years or 35 years. Um that's my I would I would argue that libertarians in general though are hyper capitalist. Like the ideology is hyper capitalists. Yes, by definition, but what they what they would be against would be something like regulatory capture, which now all of these people are now they're that's what they're doing. Like they're trying to shut the door. Sam Alman, uh Dario Amade from

25:13 Claude, they're trying to like pull up the ladder before anybody else can because they've already became the frontier AI labs. So that's not to me that's not hyper capitalist. That's more like crony capitalism when you're you're basically as a you know a monopoly you are defining what the rules are versus truly open competition like truly open competition would be like how I think of cap hyper capitalism is like whoever can make as much money as possible there's very little if any rules or regulations it's just if you're able to dominate the market you dominate and you're going to beat out your opponents just because you have the better IC we're going to put all this aside like environmental regulations, ethics, all

25:59 that stuff goes to the side. But now it does seem like what you're saying is true in that they're saying well open source that's could be very dangerous actually. Correct. So let's you know let's regulate that. Exactly. And that's that's that's part of it. And maybe hyper capitalism isn't the the right word, but it's it's this hyper acquisition of resources and the best way to get resources is money. So like they were really all about getting as much money as they can so that they didn't have to worry about going to the banks or going to the universities to get the grants that might run out. instead like why don't we just own the whole thing, right? And yes, that's probably more of

26:44 like a hyper crony capitalism than anything, right? Um but yeah and and that's the biggest thing is is and I talk about this quite a bit that the opensource the how uh Claude is really leading the charge on that but they're all really in lock step because all these AI labs are now in lock step with each other randomly once they start partnering with the American government and they're in real shambles uh to to get money to because they they they literally uh there's not enough investment money to keep this going at the rate that they're going. Um but yeah, I it's it's just it's a it's a strange weird

27:29 predicament we find ourselves in. And these are the people that are supposed to be the most powerful people in our in our world. And yeah, the problem is too is that they don't really have much allegiance to America, do they? No, it doesn't seem like so what what do you think you know is going to happen here? Is it just purely is it you know what does the collapse look like? It does seem like there will be some kind of realignment, collapse, whatever you want to call it, but what I I would say it's what do you think it will rise from the ashes? Well, I I think that I think that we can always look to the past, right? And so probably the closest in our lifetime analogy that we could

28:14 look to would be the internet. And we know that the internet bubble had happened and it wiped out like 95% of all the companies. But the companies that stayed like Amazon that weathered that storm uh became one of the biggest companies on the planet, right? And so, uh, here we'll see something like that where it's all going to go, they're either going to all merge together, um, because I think that that's part of like everything that they do is predicated on, well, if we don't do it, then China's going to do it first, but China has nationalized it and they've put the resources in and instead what we have instead of five companies united in one

28:59 pursuit, instead they're five companies that up until like two weeks ago were infighting and all just trying to get better than each other instead of coordinating their efforts. They had a lot of redundancies, right? Like from a business perspective. So, um I think that China becomes, you know, the the the boogeyman. Um and and I think in that pursuit, they're either going to nationalize AI, um but still make us pay for it, even though we're going to pay for it regardless. Um I also think that quite soon everybody is going to have their own AI agent. I think that the future of the internet, we've talked about this offline. I think the future

29:44 of the internet is agent first. Um, and that's going to fundamentally change how we interact with the internet, how commerce is done over the internet. I think it's it's going to completely change everything. And I think that America is going to own its AI and it's going to be one unified thing. And I could see that by like spring I could see like the unification or nationalization of AI in totality by like spring summer. Um because I don't think I don't think they have enough runway. I think the problem is is for a lot of these people is that there's not enough there's not enough time, right? Like why why is

30:32 uh Peter Thiel going so hard on investing in all of this AI stuff, all the surveillance tech stuff. Well, it's because he's like 60. The dude's like literally got like 20 years before like if his brain doesn't upload in the next like 20 25 years, he misses the thing that he's been building his whole life for. you know, so I think that there's some of that kind of stuff going on as well. Um, but I don't know if it if it goes well. I think it goes well if we have if we open source the internet. Um, if we kind of kill SAS companies and all that, like I think that is going to be a tough thing, but

31:19 that's ultimately what's best for all of us. And then we could have our own sovereign AI usage where we're not giving everything, every bit of our lives to some corporation that's probably run by the American government from in some way. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know where the I don't know where it goes. But what I do what I do feel pretty confident in saying is that I don't think AI is going to kill us all. I don't think that. We could just yeah turn it off basically because [snorts] they say all these chat bots are villains. I just read a thing. I don't know if it's true or not. They had to cancel their most recent version update of what is it chat GPT and and

32:05 anthropic because the agents were too villainous or something like that. I don't know what that means. You're more technologically savvy. I don't really know exactly what that means. Like the agent is doing crazy Um, but you do have painted sort of a rosy picture. It's like, oh, everybody has their own agent nationalizing. There's there's some benefit to that. I think I don't know be if if it will turn out that way. I just think there's going to be too much ego or the incentives won't align in a way where these AI companies are going to do what's good on behalf of people or even, you know, national security or whatever. I I just don't have the faith that Oh, I have no faith in that. I have no faith in that. I just think that

32:52 AI isn't this rogue thing with goals that like that's going to like permeate through everything and destruct like the humans are going to create the problems and are creating the problems with AI. AI is incredible. Well, could it could it ever be a situation like the movie Space Odyssey where the AI computer how because of the way he's programmed, he's like, "Well, you humans are things up. I now will take action to basically terminate people who are against my, you know, mission um whatever he was programmed to do." Yeah. I think again

33:38 that would mean that you would have to put some sort of human emotion behind a machine and I just don't know if we can ever get there. Right. I don't think we'll ever get there at all. I I So then you couldn't program an AI to be like, "All right, let's say your goal is to maximize profit for this company, right? you have this AI that's going to find all kinds of ways to make things more efficient. That's the ultimate goal. And let's say a human would come in and say, well, no, we actually, you know, in some cases, we don't want to maximize in in in this way. Let's say there's some human cost to it. And the AI will be like, sorry, that's not what

34:23 I was programmed to do. Like, we have to [clears throat] do this. You think that's something possible? M maybe. I think that because it's not emotion based. It's just mission driven. Yeah. So I think that I think that that's actually more likely, right? So like when we talk about like, you know, AI doing random things, it's usually because you set it onto a task, but you didn't define exactly how you wanted that task to be achieved. And then so so like for like example be like AI eliminate all war right and so how could it do that? Well if there's no more humans left well then there's no more war right like but if

35:09 you say hey eliminate war by but like you have to have like you have to weight these things as like what what needs to be done things that you can't you and you set the the guard rails. I think if you do that even with an advanced AI or a super intelligent AI, which we haven't gotten to yet, Trump. Um, I think that that may be um that may be uh more likely, but I think that we're going to get better at prompting and guard railing how like like what AI is capable of. But also it's just like part of the issue is that people go

35:55 like, "Oh, I'm like not good with computers." And then they ask Chat JPT to do something and then it does it and then it goes, "Wow, like I can't do that thing and it did that thing with such ease that therefore it must be smart or this or that." And I just don't think that that's the case. If you really get into AI like I do, um, you realize how stupid it is on like very simple things, too. It can do very complex things, but it can't do very simple things. I just think we're not there yet, man. I just think we're not there yet. Well, it's advancing quickly. That's that's the that's the worry I think a lot of people have, right? It's like we don't really know and there's no like

36:41 I'm trying to think of a way where this would make sense and how to regulate this if we need to regulate this for me you know it's like technology I think it's it's there should be some like safety factor involved of like can this actually like cause harm to people right that's how you you know you regulate new technology like you're you're building let's say there's a new machinery like that was invented in the industrial revolution like then there needs to be some kind of like safety regulation to say can this thing like blow up or whatever and and kill people. If it does that then you know you need to install fail saves. The same with like building an airplane or something like that where this is a new technology you want to make sure it's safe. Do you have backup systems where if this you know

37:27 primary thing fails then you have like a secondary thing that'll kick in. Stuff like that is where it would make sense to me. But I just don't know if like the people in Congress like really understand this at all, like what it even does. And then, you know, so then you end up having people who make this technology self-regulating. They say, "Oh, here are the guardrails." But then we always see a problem with that same thing to use the airplane example. When Boeing starts self-certifying their airplanes, things can go wrong because they are incentivized by profit and speed and efficiency versus actually, you know, human life because if a plane does crash, they'll most likely, you know, have the insurance kick in or they'll

38:12 blame something else and they won't actually have any accountability. And that's the same with the AI companies. It seems like if something does go wrong, are they going to actually be accountable for it? And you kind of see that now I think with maybe like the the cases being brought up where people are using AI and then killing themselves. I don't know what the right solution for that is. Are they really at fault or was the person you know they're saying chatbt convince them to kill themselves? It's like is that Chat GPT's fault? I don't know. I don't I don't think it's Chat GPT's fault necessarily though. There should be because it is I mean you can absolutely put guard rails on the models. I had interviewed a

38:57 person who actually trains models uh for one of these companies. Actually has worked with almost all of them at this point and she assured me that like no you can definitely put guard rails up and you know so I think I think that that's um I think that there's definitely that it's just man there's too much there's too much at play here. too much uncertainty because we can't even understand yet what AI is. So therefore, how can we like control it? You know, I don't know how much uh control there can be. Um but I think that the the mega the the problem is

39:44 with AI is with anything else, it's about the people who own it, regulate it, what the laws are around it. And that's what we gotta that's what we got to focus on is we got to focus on on on that. You know, I think I'm I'm against the open sourcing uh or or the taking down of open source, closing all of that. I'm super against that. Uh the internet itself was built on open source. I mean, you know how many critical systems run on Linux? Linux has literally never been paid for ever in like 30 years it's been around or 35 years. So open source is the way that's the open and free internet. That's

40:31 that's like what we need and we should we should be down for that. Um but the technology um we need to we need to embrace technology as we as we do that's how we advance and if we don't embrace it you know but like do we have something that people can embrace right now and well I think it's you know it's people don't trust the billionaires or the people in power the government to apply these technologies in a way where it will protect people. I think in an ideal world, and this is kind of what's going on that I've read in China, there's not a huge opposition from the population against AI. They're actually in general very pro- AAI

41:18 because they trust the companies or the government for whatever reason going on over there, but they trust them that they're going to have the people's best interest at heart. So, they're like excited. They will go and watch like robots fight, you know, as entertainment. And for us, I think when I see that, I see dystopia. I see like, oh wow, this is like, you know, basically robots replacing humans. But is there anything inherently wrong with robots fighting each other? Not really, because it's kind of fun. So, it's like, can we get to a place here where we trust the people and there or there's some kind of accountability mechanism? Because I think what goes on in a in a dictatorship, and I'm not necessarily pro dictatorship, but this is just the reality of a dictatorship is

42:03 that there's less place to to to to uh apply blame to. So if if AI goes, you know, crazy or or something bad happens in China, the government has to take ownership of it because there's no other people controlling here. We have too many like quote unquote like sources of of power where people start blaming each other. Republicans blame Democrats, Democrats blame Republicans, then they blame billionaires, whatever. So, it's like everybody's pointing their finger at each other and nobody wants to take accountability or responsibility. Um, so I think that's like my main concern is that like can we get to a place where we actually trust the government and this comes not even just AI but in everything else in general, public health, right? whether or or any

42:49 kind of application of criminal justice. Nobody trusts anything. That's why I think, for example, the Charlie Kirk thing has taken off, right, to a degree where they're like, "The FBI is corrupt. They're lying to us. Everything they give us is a lie." So now you have people doing their own investigations, which is fine. other issues, you know, whether it be like COVID or, you know, health related stuff, is the food being poisoned, that stuff really should be handled, you know, in a in a functioning society by government, uh, just to make sure like, hey, we don't poison our food. That should, you know, that's pretty look at what's happening right now. Simple or or, you know, it should be agreed upon by everybody, but now we're not sure. And so I think that's that's

43:36 going to be a problem that I I don't know how to solve. I don't know how and it's not my responsibility to restore trust in institutions. It's the institution itself that has to reform and gain people's trust back. Well, I think that I think that they think the only chance that they have is AI being so omnipotent and so ingrained within our system that we don't need to trust the government anymore. We're going to trust the AI. This is a lot of like, you know, in in the AI, you know, world, they go solve AI first and then AI will solve everything else, right? This is what Sam Olman has said. This is what Google Deep Mind has said. This is literally their their thinking, right?

44:22 The other side of that and how you bring up China is that which is great because we're also not talking about the other part of it which is the surveillance state. Okay, the surveillance state in and of itself, it's all the same people. It's all the same money, right? So those those goals are aligned. Now for the surveillance state to work, you need AI. You need AI to be the watcher that watches all of the cameras and all of the things. This is why you see every one of these a or um surveillance state companies all have AI proprietary AI products that they have

45:08 um to analyze all of this stuff to make sense of it because when you have you know hundreds of thousands of cameras millions of cameras audio devices everything coming in humans can't make sense of that you need AI for it right so part how did China do this before though they have had mass surveillance for a long time because they have also employed a lot of people to watch those things. Okay. So they just have an abundance of people. Correct. Yeah. In China. So they're like, "Yeah, we're going to assign each person one monitor and we're going to watch pretty much." Pretty much right. And so that's definitely part of it. Um but also why is China the biggest

45:54 threat against the American AI companies? because they've been putting in the infrastructure. They've been doing it because that's part of it. Now, you know, you might go like, oh, well, you know, the similarities and the overlap really are just like with a AI being used to monitor the cameras and the audio devices and all that. Uh, but you know, how else is it is it aligned? Well, it's like, well, dude, or you know, there's also the people that pay the money. uh for the AI companies and or the literally the owners of the AI companies that are invested in these um surveillance tech companies, but also there's this person in the TESCREAL

46:41 world in Silicon Valley that's kind of like a philosopher, okay? And he comes from, I believe, Oxford and his name is Nick Bostonramm, okay? Okay. And Nick Nick Bostonramm is one of the most like highly revered people in Silicon Valley that most people like normal people have never heard of this guy Nick Boston. But Nick Bostonramm is he he he's makes a lot of sway in the tech world. And he wrote this thing in 2019 called the vulnerable world hypothesis. And this is published, you can check it out. It's about eight pages or so from a magazine

47:27 where he lays out that if we're going to basically live in an a human evolved transhumanist world, we know that we can't just get people to be, you know, into that. We can't actually do that. Now, I think Peter Thiel is trying to uh tiptoe society into it with people like clvicular um making body modifications and things like way more acceptable to a younger generation. I think those are some of the things that he does. Um but Nick Bostonramm basically said that for us to do this, we need to surveil the world. We need to create a digital panopticon

48:15 and we need to uh snuff out any and all dissent against like AI, transhumanism, any of these sort of things. And and we need to use AI to run those systems to identify those people and to to silence any disscent. And this is a like this is one of the biggest works in the like AI/surveillance state world is this vulnerable world hypothesis. And so the the surveillance state because the surveillance state is always existed just like you said like well China's been doing it since before AI. It's like we've been doing it since before AI too.

49:01 like we've been doing this we've had a surve you know the the the building blocks of a surveillance state now for the last 30 years right but now it's as we can ramp up the amount of devices out there because now you can have AI that monitors everything and then gives you real-time updates onto things right um and I think that that's that's the big link is the vulnerable world hypo hypothesis and the structure that he put in place which is all there now you build on top of all of the surveillance or I'm sorry well they are surve all of the social media surveillance companies uh and how they monitor and understand

49:48 all of us from you know how we interact with people online to now we're being monitored in the physical world and all of that puts this insane dossier a on you and everybody else thanks to companies like Palunteer and Oracle which also funds all of our media capture and you know all of these tech companies right they're the same people and and all of them are what Inqell they they were all funded by Inqell those they were the they were always the the first um people that paid these companies Palantir and Oracle You know, obviously there's all the connections to total information

50:34 awareness and 9/11 and these are things that I've talked about ad nauseium. Uh but it all plays into the same thing. Is AI the worry? Is the surveillance state the worry? Like yes, like all of it. Those people that are funding all of it, they're a problem too, you know? So, it's hard to like point the finger at like one problem or one future thing, like one future outcome, because there's so many things at play that it's hard to take them all down. And then we're all sitting here going like, WE GOT WE GOT TO TAKE DOWN FLOCK cameras when there's like 80 other technologies out there that are like out there like Axen and all that sort of

51:20 stuff. So, it's so hard, man. It's so hard to know what the future is. Uh, but one thing I know is that the human spirit, as long as we have humans on this planet, the human spirit will endure, my friend. That's what I think. That's what I hope for. Anyway, I couldn't agree more. I think that's well put because the stuff that I look into, the stuff we talk about sometime very dystopian, it could leave people helpless and I don't want that to be the lasting impression. And I want to be able be able to provide information, knowledge, and awareness without the conclusion being, you know, nihilism, right? There's, as you just put, you know, the human spirit will endure. I

52:05 think that's such a such a great way to put it, man. Thanks, man. I mean, this is this is what I think. I mean, you know, you were you were there with Thomas Massie when they did what they did to Thomas Massie, right? like you were at his home interviewing him like the week before, man. And you saw I think you had a firsterson sort of look at something that a lot of us don't have, which is why did Israel have to do what it did or Apac, sorry. Why did Apac do what it did? Why did it have to do the money if we didn't have the power? We still have the power. our collective, you know, uh

52:50 everything the the collective of humanity is the power. Um and they haven't they haven't stripped of us that of that yet. And we need to remember that and we need to come together. And one thing I always talk about in every one of my live streams is how we need to have discussions. We need to be discussing things with people that we're aligned with, but more importantly with people that we are not in line with. And we need to look at where we overlap and start there. You start there and then you start to realize that we all generally want a lot of the same things and it's just these weird oligarchs and people probably blackmailed by somebody

53:35 in our government and that's their agenda, but that's not our agenda. And we need to remember what our agenda is. And then we need to flex our will because it's the will of the people, you know, and I still believe that. And and that's why I am so hopeful and why I can have a a an a a view of a hope hopeful future because I think people are waking up and I think you know our trust in institutions are at an all-time low and it's for a reason and we need to keep we need to keep reminding ourselves of what that is 100%. And I don't want to say too much right now, but we might be working on something to help bring people together. That's all I'll say.

54:20 We might be. Who knows? It's neither here nor there. Um, but James, I I want to thank you. I I know you wanted to get out around three. Uh, I want to thank you so much for coming here and talking with me and just having a a discussion. I think like I said discussions are the most important thing I think we could do on camera off camera whatever um we should be looking towards other people's opinions other people's uh perspectives because that's what strengthens us and so I'm really really grateful for you to come on here and talk to my people and to come on here and if there's anything you want to plug or tell people please let them Oh.

55:06 Um, well, no, thank you for having me on, Kevin. Appreciate you. You're a real real homie. If people don't know my work and want to check it out, I am available to folks on YouTube, Instagram X, as well as Facebook. If you're one of the, you know, boomers out there, we still want them, you know, we still bring them in. We're open to you guys. You know, you're not the villains. You know, we want a, you know, people who are awake no matter what generation you belong to. So, you can find me on all these platforms at 5149. That's 5149 James Lee. Same handle for all platforms. Appreciate you guys. Hell yeah. Thank you much so much, James. Uh, for all of you watching,

55:51 thank you for coming through randomly on a Monday afternoon. It's not our normal time or day, but thank you all for coming through. Uh, James, I hope you have a great day. Everybody, I hope you have a fantastic day.